motos anciennes de course vma endurance |
| | YOSHIMA Honda Cb BO | |
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| Sujet: Re: YOSHIMA Honda Cb BO 10/10/2008, 09:48 | |
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| Sujet: Re: YOSHIMA Honda Cb BO 10/10/2008, 10:07 | |
| Au top le BENOIT ! MERCI ! |
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| Sujet: Re: YOSHIMA Honda Cb BO 10/10/2008, 10:44 | |
| BENOIT |
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| Sujet: Re: YOSHIMA Honda Cb BO 10/10/2008, 10:45 | |
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| Sujet: Re: YOSHIMA Honda Cb BO 10/10/2008, 10:51 | |
| y manque la page 29 d'ailleur |
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| Sujet: Re: YOSHIMA Honda Cb BO 10/10/2008, 11:22 | |
| ONTARIO MOTO TECH
CB900F Project Bike - A Step-by-Step Street Scorcher
by: Ken Vreeke Motorcyclist Magazine, July 1982 Project bikes are sinfully tempting. Once they get started, they are a lot like lies: they just keep getting bigger and more vicious Given unlimited funds, there is almost no limit to how much you can hop up a bike, and too often we see project bikes that seem to be line products of just such bankrolls. Big, nasty monsters that turn heads and compress internal organs with a twist’ the throttle Nothing like a healthy adrenaline bath to wash away the EPA blahs. But how many people can afford. or even have the desire, to build such a brute? Someplace between showroom stock and full boogie is where most people end up. We explored that gray area with a CB900F project by building the engine one stage at a time. Of course. in the end we knuckled under to temptation and build a monster. We chose the CB900F because it is an, excellent sport bike and at $3598, it is the cheapest of the big road-huggers. But its displacement disadvantage leaves it behind bikes Like the Suzuki GS 11 00E, Katana, and Kawasaki GPz 1100. Also, the C8900 has been around long enough for pieces to start wearing out, and we figured this would be a good chance for owners to install hot parts and pester their riding buddies. To handle the building chores, we Contacted Kaz Yoshima of Ontario Moto Tech. Kaz is one of the more berserk entrepreneurs of four-stroke tuning. He was ready to build an engine capable of producing spleen-fattening good times right off the bat. He cut his tuning teeth over a decade ago in the R&D division of Honda Motor Corp. in Japan and made his mark in hlis country by building fast CB400 tours that spun their plain-bearing cranks at 12,000rpm while other tuners wrote the engine off as lacking, potential. He is one of those people with a chronic lust for speed, and when he’s not at his Shop working on the bench or dyno, he is probably studying the latest in ballistics or dissecting some other oblect of high velocity in search of something everyone else overlooked. Kaz dedicates most of his time to Honda’s C8X, CB750 and CB900 and sells everything from exhaust systems to complete engine kits. In 1981 his 970cc piston kit powered one customer’s bike to victory at the Widow maker hill climb and another’s to the overall win, and a new track record all the Nelson ledges 24-Hour endurance race. Needless to say, his work is versatile and durable. This year Yoshima bumped his kit to 1002cc. That kit served as the basis for the second-stage hop-up of our engine. The first stage consists of only a pipe, K&N air filter, and minor jetting changes. The third and final stage is for those in pursuit of serious fun. Standard performance was established at the strip and on Kaz’s dyno, which reads horsepower directly on the countershaft. At 8500 rpm, our CB900 peaked with 79.4 horsepower and produced underwhelming power in the low rev range. The best quarter-mile film was 12.04 seconds at an even 110 mph. RolI•on tests at 50 mph, performed by whacking the throttle open in fifth gear 200 yards born the speed traps. yielded a terminal speed of 79.6 mph. Compared to the 1000cc Katana’s 11.25 run at 120.6 mph and roll-on or 82.3 mph, the CB900 is a slug. We had problems executing full throttle speed shifts at the top and found more neutrals in the cog box than were called for in the manual. Kaz fixed the mystery neutral trouble by opening up the shirt spindle window (See Motorcyclist, July. ‘81), allowing the spindle a wider arc to fully rotate the shifting drum. The speed-shifting problem turned out to be drag in the crutch assembly. Poor manufacturing tolerances had the Outer hub clamped against the main-shaft bearing instead of spinning freely. By installing, a thinner spacer between line hub and bearing. Kaz rid the clutch or the problem, and speed shifts became a reality. These simple and virtually cost-free modifications improved the gearbox performance dramatically. Shifting became smoother, more positive, and the neutral quotient returned to one. |
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| Sujet: Re: YOSHIMA Honda Cb BO 10/10/2008, 11:22 | |
| STAGE ONE The main ingredient in Kaz’s first stage is his four-into-one exhaust system. It comes in Kal-Gard black or chrome, and is also available in a hand-bent racing mode. The street version, which we chose for our hop-up, is 17 pounds lighter than the stock system, allows retention of the centerstand, easy access to the oil drain plug, and as much ground clearance as the standard System. Exhaust is baffled by a fibreless muffler housing a series of small tubes and a covered core. Without floor to burn out, the pipe will remain as quiet as new, and although is louder than stock, its pleasant growl is still well within reason. There are pipe manufacturers that make all kinds of horsepower claims about their systems. But it’s no wonder many of these pipes do little more than make a lot of noise. Building pipes is an art in itself and far more complex than most people think. For instance, at 10,000 rpm the CB900’s crankshaft takes 166.66 times per second, with the standard earn and valve design. The intake valve is open for only .008 second and the exhaust valve only .004 second per cycle. The pipe builder must not only make sure that all-the burned gases can escape, he must also create just the right amount of back pressure. Kaz has found that as ideas have an inch of change in the length of the collector can make a difference of six horsepower in the CB900F. Adding a restrictive muffler to the exception makes the job exceptionally difficult. To work with his pipe, Kaz installs a larger number 70 primary (pilot) jets in place or the standard 32mm Keihin number 68 primaries. He then installs a less restrictive K&N tiller in the air box. Though Kaz’s pipe flows better than the standard system, a larger main jet foods the system more exhaust gases than it can handle with the Street batte. The larger primary jets, however, feed the cylinders more fuel throughout the rev range without overloading the exhaust system. Coupled with the new filter and pipe, more total volume is run through the cylinder at a quicker rate during the critically short valve-opening periods. The result of Kaz’s modifications, totaling, $235, is remarkable. At 4000 rpm the CB900 produces over three horsepower more than stock. At 4000 rpm there is a five-horsepower gain, and at 9000 rpm, where it peaks, horsepower, is up a whopping 7.9. Torque peaks with 54.0 pounds/feet at 8000 rpm (roughly three more than standard), The only place where the stage-one engine doesn’t make more power is in the 5000 to 5500 rpm range.
Kaz gets rid of this lag by drilling out the EPA mandated press fit air jets on a spare set of carbs. Without drilling these jets, a sacrifice must be made somewhere in the powerband. But since there is no replacement jet and it would be easy for someone to screw up the drilling operation. he left the jets in our carbs alone. His exhaust system places the lag where Kaz feels it causes the least concern. At 60 mph the engine spins at 4100 rpm, and there the engine makes more power. Under a heavy throttle hand, the tach needle swings past the powerloss zone so fast it isn’t even noticeable. For the sake of true comparison, we went to the strip with the standard tires, gearing, ignition timing, suspensioneverything stock except for the aforementioned modifications. Ambient conditions were much the same as our first trip. We had problems keeping the hard rear tire from spinning during fast starts, but after a few practice runs, the CB900 ripped through the quarter in 11.695 seconds at 115.97 mph. The best our CB900 could manage in the fifth gear rollon was 76.79 mph, which is slower than stock. Since the engine makes more power in the 3500to4000rpm rev range used during rollons, we cannot explain our results. We later discovered that the rear brake pads were dragging, but we have no idea how much, if any. this affected rollon performance. The new quartermile figures are 3.45 seconds quicker than stock and nearly six mph faster. That spells horsepower, more than we’ve ever heard of from any aftermarket manufacturer or streetable pipes. Though the stageone engine is still off the Katana’s pace, which we really didn’t expect to best with so few modifications, (he new lime and speed b at our Kawasaki’s KZ1000J by nearly twolengths of a second and three mph. That makes the stage one CB900 faster than any Stock 1000cc machine we’ve ever tested, with the exception of the Katana, And though the rollon tests don’t show a, the stageone engine accelerates smartly at low revs and no longer reels starved below 6000 rpm. Not too shabby for a couple of boltons.
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| Sujet: Re: YOSHIMA Honda Cb BO 10/10/2008, 11:23 | |
| STAGE TWO Though Kaz’s 1002cc piston kit is the central item in the second stage engine, he makes a number of other changes for the sake of longevity. The standard five row oil cooler is replaced with a 10row unit made In Japan to Kaz’s specifications. It boils to the standard mounts and uses Ihe existing oil lines, Kaz’s experience with the plain bearing CB400 engine taught him that crank bearings don’t last long if they don’t get enough oil to make sure the CB900’s plain bearings, as well as the rest of the oilbathed parts, get enough lubrication, Kaz installs a stiffer relief spring in the standard 011 pump. The new spring bumps pressure to 85 pounds. Kaz micropolishes the crankshaft’s mainbearing journals to ge1 the smoothest surface possible for the plain bearings to ride on, and the crank is then balanced. The standard forged connecting rods are used, but Kaz polishes the beams and chamfers the big ends to relieve any stress points. All the rods are then balanced 10 produce consistent rotating weight and shotpeened for maximum strength. He also installs stronger cam and primary drive chains heattreated to his specifications, while all this might sound a bit extreme, Kaz wouldn’t cut one of his 1 002lA: CBs loose on the racetrack without these modifications. Race bikes run at peak power constantly, and with crank speeds of 66 revolutions per second, who wants to take chances? But for street use, Yoshima says the only logical modification is the installation of the oilpump spring. The main reason Kaz was able to use the standard rod safely is his piston assembly is lighter than stock, The larger 66.0mm pistons actually weigh the same (175 grams) as the smaller 64.5mm standard pistons, but by redesigning the wristpin boss, Kaz was able 10 use a shorter wrist pin that is stronger and five grams lighter. He also managed to make the boss stronger without using as much material and thus kept the weight of the piston the same as the standard unit. Indeed, the weight is crucial with piston speeds nearing 23 meters per second. Yoshima’s pistons are pressure die cast in Japan using a special silicon content aluminum. The Silicon provides an extra degree of lubrication and allows tolerances to be tighter than those of nonsilicon forged pistons. The piston crown features larger valve pockets for bigger valves and more radical cams. Compression is bumped to 10.5:1 from the stock 8.8:1, and the crown is designed to direct the flame front to theouter edges of the bore for more complete burning of the 1uel. With these pistons, the engine can easily handle pump gas without any sign of detonation. Rings are similar to the standard units, outer edges of the bore for more complete burning of the fuel. With these pistons, the engine can easily handle pump gas without any sign of detonation. Rings are similar to the standard units, Higher compression, however, does create a problem with the standard ignition system, with tile increase in combustion chamber pressure, it is difficult for the ignition spark, to make the jump across the plug’s electrodes. This makes the bike reluctant to start when it’s cold and causes inconsistent firing, especially at higher revs. If the plugs get wet or soiled with carbon, they foul easily. So Kaz installs a Dyna III ignition system. This system’s powerful coils deliver 30,000 volts to ea.ch cylinder and allow the plug gaps to be opened. Spreading the electrodes forces the spark to jump farther and essentially creates longer firing duration. Kaz also advances the ignjtion two degrees (41 degrees BTDC at 3500 rpm) to begin the firing process sooner and ensure complete burning of the fuel. We stuck with the standard CV carbs once again, but Installed number 75 primary jets and tilted bigger number , 08 secondary (main) jets in p ace of the standard number 105s. We left the street pipe in place From the very bottom, the stage·two engine pumps out gobs of horsepower. At 4000 rpm it grunts out 39.25 horsepower and a whopping 51.5 pounds/feet 01 torque. That is eight more horsepower than the stock engine, four more than the stage one engine, 11 more pounds feet of torque than the stock model, and nearly seven more than the stageone engine. It jumps from 48.0 to 54.5 horsepower at 5000 to 5500 rpm, where the stageone engine went flat Throughout the rev range, the Stage·two engine consistently makes from eight to 12 more horsepower than stage one, until it peaks with 94.5 horsepower at 6500rpm. Torque peaks at 6500 rpm with 62 pounds/feet, or roughly eight more than stage one produced at its 8000-rpm peak. Throttle response is immediate and brutal. The CB 1002 would spin the standard rear tire too easily in the lower gears. Obviously a better tire was needed before we ventured 10 the dragstrip.
After fitting a 130/90 Dunlop Elite, we thought we were ready. We weren’t a recent national drag race had left a lot of rubber on the Orange County International Raceway’s starting area, and traction was so good, it was impossible to make full-throttle starts without almost looping the bike. When we fil’1ally did manage a clean start, all the force was too much for the stock clutch to handle, and the outer friction plate shattered. Throughout the day we were plagued by clutch problems, but the CB1002 managed to Sizzle through the quarter in 1.375 second at 118.89 mph, just 1.7 mph Slower than Suzuki’s Katana. RolI-on tests resulted in a top speed of 82.49 mph faster than the Katana, faster than, the GS1100, and faster than the GPz1100, But not by much. Even with the cost of he piston kit, ignition, pipe, pump, spring, and jets, our CB1002 was still a few hundred dollars under the price of the Katana and the GPz1100, and on par with the GS1100 Kaz then removed the CV carbs and slid a set of optional 33mm alumlnum-bodied Mikuni smoothbores in their place. This bumped quarter-mile performance into the Katana’s territory: 11.26 at 120.98 mph. Roll-ons increased to 82.72, but it was no longer possible to whack the throttle open without the engine blubbering. Unlike a CV carb, which automatically regulates air flow as vacuum increases, the slide-needle Mikunis respond directly to he right wrist, so it is up to the rider to use them properly. This means gently rolling the throttle open at low revs until air flow reaches a workable level. These carbs are made 101′ racing, and at the higher rpm levels, they can be whacked wide open without any problem. Still, they alter more horsepower than the standard CVs even at lower revs, provided the rider knows what’s going on. Kaz then removed the centerstand and installed his hand-bent racing pipe, which is too loud for us to recommend for street use. Even with 8 dying clutch. the CB1002 burned through the traps in 11.17 seconds at 122.95 mph. That is greater top speed than was produced by either the GS1100 or the GPz 1100, and the CB1002 is still at nearly a 100cc disadvantage. The roll-on was an impressive 83.56mph. On the dyno the stage two engine, with optional Mikunis and racing pipe, pumps out 110 horsepower at 9500. The carbs and racing pipe are worth 15 horsepower over the stage-two engine without options and as much as 18 horsepower at 9500 rpm. Even at 4500 rpm. It made 7.5 mote horsepower. Kaz says his racing pipe is worth about six horsepower over the street version, but the big difference comes from the Mikunis; the air flow is increased because it takes a more< direct route to the cylinder than it does in the CVs. And the Mikunis are far more adjustable. In the hands of a good rider this engine could probably clean up the local Superbike competition and finish with honor in AMA Superbike events. With a stronger clutch, we probably could have ridden the option-equipped CB 1002 into the 10s. With the right pesticide, we could probably rid the world of killer bees, too, but we didn't bring either one. So we headed back to the shop to start on the next stage.
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| Sujet: Re: YOSHIMA Honda Cb BO 10/10/2008, 11:23 | |
| STAGE THREE In this stage Kaz pursues maximum horsepower. He takes all the a forementioned hop-up items, plus the racing pipe and optional Mikuni carbs, and adds hotter cams along with cylinderhead porting. His cams are available in four different grinds: Street, Hot Street, Roadracing, and Dragracing. Since we wanted the bike to remain somewhat streetable, we asked Kaz to install the Hot Street cams and to read horsepower on the dyno both with and without the Mikunis and racing pipe. Without these options, the stage-three engine pumps out 106.0 horsepower at 9500 rpm and 63.7 pounds/feet of torque at 8500 rpm. With the Mikuni carbs and street pipe, horsepower jumps to 116 at 9000 rpm, and torque climbs to 69.0 from 8000 to 8500 rpm. The advantage of the Mikuni carbs is obvious. Even without the racing pipe, the engine pumps out well over 100 horsepower, plenty for at1acking the streets. The race pipe bumps power substantially. Though the engine wasn’t happy at low revs on the dyno, it pumped out 87.8 horsepower at 7000 rpm, where Kaz took his first reading. That is slightly less than the stage-two engine at the same rpm, but the stage-three engine had not yet come on the cam. At 8000 rpm, where the beast starts to make power, it pumps out 109.6 horsepower. At 9000 rpm it peaks with 123.3 horsepower and 72.0 pounds/feet of torque. By 10,000 rpm it dropped to 121.2 horsepower. The Roadracing or Dragracing cams would have bumped that figure even higher, but as it is, the stage-three engine is pumping out enough horsepower to make the AMA’s top 10 list. The Hot Street cams provide 1.0mm more lift than the stockers and an extra 30 degrees of duration, 15 degrees to ei1her side of maximum lift. The intake valves open 20 degrees before top dead center and close 50 degrees after bottom dead center. Exhaust valves open 50 degrees BBDC and close 20 degrees ATDC. With Kaz’s Street cams, it is possible to use the standard valve springs, but with the higher lift of the Hot Street cams. the stock springs will coil-bind long before the cams reach maximum lift. Kaz installs a set of his own special springs that won’t bind and are stiff enough to make sure the valve follows the steeper cam ramp. Some engines produce a vibration frequency that makes the valve springs jump about and prevents them from accurately controlling the valves. Kaz uses two springs per valve, which will prevent this disturbing behavior. Porting is something few tuners will lay out in detail. We suspect Kaz is no different, but he did tell us most of the work takes place in the area of the valve heads. The valves in the CB900 don’t sit flush with the combustion dome when they are closed, so Kaz opens up the valve seat with a 45-degree cut at the outer edge. This effectively opens up the valve area to its full potential so that the 26mm intake valves and 22.5mm exhaust valves can pass as much mixture as possible. It also sinks the valves deeper into the combustion chamber, which rids the chamber of overhanging intrusions that can hamper the complete burning of fuel. The standard ports are very narrow near the valve guides and open up dramatically as they level off. Kaz opens the valve-guide area and alters the lower radius to give the ports a straighter shot to the atmosphere. Standard dimensions are retained near the manifolds, since the ports are large enough to match the flow capabilities of the standard valves. Once the serious grinding is done, the ports are polished to the appropriate gleam. On a warm day at the strip, the CB 1002 scored an 11.20 second run at 123.28 mph, with the optional carbs and street pipe in place. It should have been quicker, but we had more clutch problems. Kaz had installed a Barnett clutch and heavy dragracing-type springs. The plates worked well, but the springs proved too heavy and the clutch engaged with an uncontrollable jolt. Each time it engaged suddenly, the rear tire went up in smoke. We installed the hand-bent pipe and made a few more runs. The fully optioned CB 1002 tripped the lights at 126.93 mph, though the time was a disappointing 11.08 seconds. At 127 mph, the thing should have made the trip in the 10.80 second range, but the heavy clutch springs foiled all attempts to bring the times down. gaged with an uncontrollable jolt. Each time it engaged suddenly, the rear tire went up in smoke. We installed the hand-bent pipe and made a few more runs. The fully optioned CB 1 002 tripped the lights at 126.93 mph, though the time was a disappointing 11.08 seconds. At 127 mph, the thing should have made the trip in the 10.80-second range, but the heavy clutch springs foiled all attempts to bring the times down. However, top speed was indication enough. Eddie Lawson’s Kawasaki Superbike managed a top speed of 132 mph in the quarter, some five mph faster than Kaz’s creation. You can bet Lawson’s bike has had a bit more tweaking and weighs in at the AMA 416-pound weight minimum. Our CB 1002 weighs an extra 135 pounds or so, which means that Kaz’s engine is not too far otf. He has the makings of a stage-four kit that includes more radical cams, bigger valves, followers that place the valve shims under titanium buckets, and lighter chromoly rods. We were willing, but ran out of time. So, what we found out about Kaz’s various CB900 hop-up stages is this: Stage one yields far more performance than we anticipated for such a minimal cash outlay. His pipe turned our CB900 from a low-rpm wheezer into a responsive liter-chaser. For $235, his kit increased performance over 10 percent. We know of no other exhaust system that offers such gains. And we know of no other bolt-on items that can produce such an increase for the price. Stage two is the most likable street engine. For just over $600, the CB900 owner gets an engine capable of putting a wrinkle In his uvula and running with the strongest liter bikes. Without options, the kit yields nearly a 20 percent increase in horsepower. Anyone about to rebuild his top end can’t go wrong with this kit. Even without the optional carbs and racing pipe, the stage-two engine is a potent weapon. We would recommend the optional Mikuni carbs to the serious street loonies, but the racing pipe will get you thrown out of the neighborhood. Lunkheads need not concern themselves with the stage-three kit. It makes power at a competition level, and the unwary will be tempted to go too fast too often. Because of the cams, this engine doesn’t pull quite as hard as stage two at low revs, but when the revs build, you’d best be ready. With full options this engine could probably give the top privateers a run. The horsepower charts and dragstrip results are here as proof. As for durability, we personally missed a few shifts with this engine-which already had some 25 quarter-mile and eight dyno runs on it and overrevved the bejesus out of the poor thing without any noticeable damage. And that is with the standard rods, and shim setup and 55 percent more power. Tempted? You should be. We found each stage to be a willing accomplice to different levels of antisocial foolery. Ontario Moto Tech offers all the ingredients to go as far as you dare with your CB900. And if you don’t paint yours up as blatantly as ours, you could build a classic sleeper, a mercenary in house slippers for aggravated assault on your unsuspecting riding buddies. |
| | | STOK51
Nombre de messages : 13626 Age : 65 Localisation : REIMS Date d'inscription : 28/03/2007
| Sujet: Re: YOSHIMA Honda Cb BO 10/10/2008, 12:45 | |
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| Sujet: Re: YOSHIMA Honda Cb BO 10/10/2008, 13:32 | |
| Le catalogue (enfin, une petite partie ...) |
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| Sujet: Re: YOSHIMA Honda Cb BO 10/10/2008, 13:33 | |
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| Sujet: Re: YOSHIMA Honda Cb BO 10/10/2008, 13:34 | |
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| | | franck
Nombre de messages : 3477 Age : 59 Localisation : alsace Date d'inscription : 03/03/2008
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| Sujet: Re: YOSHIMA Honda Cb BO 10/10/2008, 13:39 | |
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| Sujet: Re: YOSHIMA Honda Cb BO 10/10/2008, 14:27 | |
| OUAIS. Ben vire pas trop vite passque c'est du top michto ya plein de trucs à noter, méditer et ...... pomper encore merci benoit si t'en as d'autres, don't hesitate |
| | | Pierre Admin
Nombre de messages : 17500 Age : 66 Localisation : Paris Date d'inscription : 24/03/2007
| Sujet: Re: YOSHIMA Honda Cb BO 10/10/2008, 14:45 | |
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| Sujet: Re: YOSHIMA Honda Cb BO 10/10/2008, 14:54 | |
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| Sujet: Re: YOSHIMA Honda Cb BO 10/10/2008, 15:24 | |
| ... http://fr.shopping.com/xPF-Jardin-kawasaki-La-tondeuse-KAWASAKI-thermique-tractee-MTD-PRO-SPK-53-HW et je ne suis pas " pro Honda " ... |
| | | STOK51
Nombre de messages : 13626 Age : 65 Localisation : REIMS Date d'inscription : 28/03/2007
| Sujet: Re: YOSHIMA Honda Cb BO 10/10/2008, 22:30 | |
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| Sujet: Re: YOSHIMA Honda Cb BO 12/10/2008, 10:35 | |
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| Sujet: Re: YOSHIMA Honda Cb BO 14/10/2008, 01:06 | |
| - jimstinger a écrit:
- tu n'as jamais vu J-Yves tondre toi!??!!, c'est une balle!!
je fais "p'louse" rarement , d'abord et il y a longtemps et en en DUCATE seulement ) d'ailleurs, c'était plus bouillasse qu'herbe verte... et pissque vous voulez tout savoir, c'est la braizouille qui m'a décapé à l'elephant bleu ce jour là; casqué, ganté, botté et cuiré prop' comme un sou neuf en r'sortant Juste les passants qui me regardaient drôlement un p'tit gauche à la con...un peu optimiste , j'venais d'me goinfrer une GOLD et un CBR d'un coup hardi su'l'brembo; mais "ça passait pas" j'ai tout bloqué; l'avant; l'arrière et même la compression sur l'coup d'piston visé bien prop' entre deux tas de bois et hop ..........;en avant pour visite guidée de la prairie toujours soucieux de la mécanique, j'ai rien cassé; ni mes os, ni le moindre levier ou sélecteur ouf; sauvés; Après l'épisode "karcher" , le grand prix du jura a repris de suite MORTEAUX -PONTARLIER c'est d'la bonne d'ailleurs, on y retourne cette année |
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| Sujet: Re: YOSHIMA Honda Cb BO 14/10/2008, 06:31 | |
| à la voir comme ça je me dis que ses demi-guidons gigantesque lui cassent vraiment la ligne |
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| Sujet: Re: YOSHIMA Honda Cb BO | |
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